“The biggest challenge is to transform laws on paper into reality”
In this interview we spoke with climate activist and law student Nicki Becker about children’s climate justice in Argentina. We asked her about our research project on children’s access to environmental justice and our legal report on Argentina - and how to transform what the law says into reality.
CRIN’s Children’s Access to Environmental Justice project is producing research on 43 countries examining how laws and policies protect - or fail to protect - children’s environmental rights. These legal focused research reports are just the start of our work on this issue. We think it’s important to start with a solid foundation and understanding of what the law says, but we want to build on this in collaboration with others.
We recently launched our legal report on Children’s Access to Environmental Justice in Argentina, but the reports are only one side of the story. We also want to hear directly from those advocating for children’s environmental rights. Through interviews we aim to explore how our findings on what the law says relates to and can support the efforts of those at the forefront of the climate justice movement.
CRIN: You read CRIN’s Argentina report. What are your thoughts on it?
Nicki: I found it very interesting because I study law. I am an activist who studies the law because it provides me with tools for my activism - to understand our rights and how to claim them. It also helps me better understand how global climate summits like COP can work better and their legal aspects, which is fundamental when thinking about the changes that have to be made due.
I liked how the report provides a comprehensive summary of Argentinian law. Implementation of these laws is then another discussion.
You have used the law as a tool in your activism. For example, you have played a key role in disseminating the Escazú Agreement, which is an important human rights treaty on the environment that recognises that a healthy environment is fundamental to peaceful, inclusive and sustainable societies. How do you see the role of law in achieving climate justice?
Nicki: I think it is fundamental. The Escazú Agreement is a great example because it is a regional agreement in Latin America and the Caribbean which covers the rights to participation, information and access to justice in environmental matters, and relates human rights in general to the environmental issue. Many people still think the climate crisis is a question of the future and only impacts polar bears, when in reality we know it impacts many basic rights such as access to housing and our rights to health, water, food and many other basic rights.
The law is a fundamental tool because it gives us rights, including the right to a healthy environment – which in Argentina is enshrined in article 41 of the Constitution, as the report explains [see Section I, National legal protections], But people also need to know that they have these rights – if they do not know about this right, they will never be able to claim it. And I think that is what activism is all about - communicating and spreading the message that there is a right being violated. With the climate crisis, we know that this right is going to be increasingly breached if certain measures are not taken. That seems to me to be the interesting aspect.
Do you think climate activists use the law well enough?
Nicki: It seems to me that it depends very much on the country. In Argentina, yes, young climate activists use the law quite a lot. For example, since the first march we did with Jóvenes Por El Clima [Youth for Climate] we worked extensively on different draft laws in Congress including the Climate Change Law (Ley de Cambio Climático), the Escazú Agreement, the Law on Environmental Education (Ley de Educación Ambiental) and the Yolanda Law (Ley Yolanda). Many laws were passed as a result of pressure from the climate movement in Argentina. I think that made us have a better understanding of, and relationship with, the law . We also better understood the laws we have such as the Law on Forests (Ley de Bosques), which is not effectively complied with.
It seems to me that, in general, engagement [with the law] in the climate movement in Argentina is much larger than it is in other countries. As I see it, activists in other countries do not have as much access to influence what happens in Congress and the passing of laws.
What do you think are these obstacles that activists face when using the law in their activism?
Nicki: First of all, the lack of information. Sometimes the legal field seems very complex and there are technical words that, if one does not have that vocabulary or lacks information, are difficult to understand. And then understanding that it is a tool for our activism. It seems to me that sometimes it is not so clear, or sometimes the lack of connections or influence in these areas leads to it not being an issue that is worked on so much.
And what do you think are the limits of the law in this regard? For example, do you think laws fall short? Or in what ways can the law itself limit the use of laws for activism?
Nicki: I think that a challenge we have in many countries, such as Argentina, is that once the law is passed - and we invest a lot of effort in it because it’s so important to have it on paper - , is to then translate it from paper into reality. And that’s where I think we have an even more important role to play, which is to monitor that this law is being complied with across the country. And that’s why it is so important to have national movements, because, for instance, I am from Buenos Aires and it is difficult to understand and know if the Law on Forests (Ley de Bosques) is being complied with in Chaco [province]. As much as I can read about it, it is the people living in Chaco who are seeing if it is being complied with or not. That is also a challenge because you have to count on many people to monitor whether a law is being complied with. And even if it is being enforced, the tools to enforce it effectively are more complex than pushing for a law to be passed. So I think the biggest challenge is to have the necessary determination and also the capacity to monitor whether the law is actually being complied with.
You mentioned earlier the issue of access to information. What solutions do you think there should be to make this information more accessible?
Nicki: I think a key aspect is to have reports like the one you produced which help to understand your country’s environmental laws and what the procedure is to claim your rights. What would also be helpful is to have information on social media, which is the way many activists of my generation inform themselves, in a more interactive way and without such a complex vocabulary. It seems to me that such information is not so easy to find and that it would be very useful to have sites or reports that can talk about the extent of environmental rights in each country.
And how do you think organisations like CRIN can help, other than with these reports? Is there anything else you would like to highlight?
Nicki: I think that sometimes, for example, in spite of having the information, paying for a lawyer is very expensive, or one does not have anyone to turn to, or one does not know which lawyer to turn to, because they have to be specialised in this subject. A role that organisations like CRIN could play, and which I think could be beneficial, is to help provide links to local lawyers who can advise.
You are now a law student while continuing your advocacy work through media and other initiatives. How do you plan to integrate your studies into your activism and vice versa?
Nicki: I definitely chose law because of the environmental issue in order to acquire more tools from that perspective. It is hard for me to think about what I’m going to do in the future to be honest because three years ago I could not imagine that I would be carrying out the role I am carrying out today. And also, there are a lot of things that I have been doing over these three years that I realised I really like, like being on a radio programme, and others that I did not like so much before, and I have the feeling that this will continue to happen. I cannot imagine myself being a lawyer, but I can imagine having that knowledge and influencing the international climate change agenda in climate summits, but with a more in-depth role in the legal field. But now I find it difficult to think about how I am going to apply that knowledge. That is something time will tell.
We are coming to the end of the interview, but before we conclude... Is there a message you would like to convey to the audience?
Nicki: At the beginning, for a long time, I think the prevailing narrative about climate change was that it did not exist, and then we moved to the stage where people said: "well, it exists, but it is not caused by human activity". I think those debates are over now. There is too much scientific consensus on this and we know that the climate crisis exists. It is a major problem. And not only that, but it is caused by human activity. It seems to me that now we are increasingly hearing the idea that we cannot stop the climate crisis, that we can’t do anything about it. And I think that this idea is also used to avoid curbing the climate crisis. We have the challenge of understanding that, although the challenge is enormous, and I think it is the greatest challenge we have ever faced as humanity, we can indeed curb the climate crisis. For that we have to organise ourselves with other sectors, with other people, because the only way to do it is collectively. I believe that this is the message that we must continue to convey and disseminate nowadays: that the climate crisis can be stopped and that this depends on the pressure that we put on decision-makers today.
About Nicole Becker
Nicole Becker is an Argentinian climate activist and the co-founder and one of the main organisers of Jóvenes Por El Clima (Youth for Climate). For her efforts in fighting against climate change, the Argentine Congress has recognised Nicole as one of the most outstanding young women in the country. Nicole focuses on the relationship between social justice and climate justice to address the climate crisis. Nicole is a former host of "Permitido Pisar el Pasto" one of the most listened to radio shows and podcasts in the country. She currently writes for several media outlets on the climate crisis.
See more about what children have to say on the climate crisis, and why more needs to be done to involve them: Children’s rights and voices in the global response to climate change.
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